tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8550058566159443898.post8193101274177697677..comments2024-02-23T03:44:40.820-05:00Comments on Cyganeria: Aesthetics versus Athletics (or Don’t Hate on the Pretty Boys): A guest post from SethMashahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06943998810222103926noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8550058566159443898.post-58636296394309582462013-12-15T01:27:12.306-05:002013-12-15T01:27:12.306-05:00Thanks Jenna! I'm glad there's another guy...Thanks Jenna! I'm glad there's another guy out there who doesn't have to self-identify with some pro sports team and call them "we" (as in "ugh, I can't believe 'we' picked up So-and-So, well at least 'we' still have What's-His-Name and can you believe how awesome 'we' were in last nights game?") and that you married him. Congrats.<br />And Laura, I'm glad you liked the post! I'll try and address your questions as clearly as I can...<br />#1 This is a topic that unfortunately comes up a lot. I never knew it was so difficult to be comfortable in your own gender until I started engaging in late night bonfire conversations; which are usually great but can tend towards the over-complication-of-simple-things route. There seem to be a lot of guys who feel they aren't doing something right if they're not actually DOING something. <br />#2 I have no idea what's behind it. Still haven't figured that one out.<br />#3 "What does masculinity mean to me" is one of those questions I always feel stupid at, like when you're supposed to pick a reaction to some hypothetical situation so you can diagnose your personality. I always feel like I should know, but then I freeze. I guess I just don't like to overthink it, there's no particular formula that I've seen and I think it's problematic to try and create one.<br />#4 A men's retreat, in my mind, shouldn't be so focused on MEN as it should be on RETREAT; there's merit to hanging out with just guys every now and then but the topic shouldn't always have to be so redundant. If a bunch of guys want to hang out and talk theology or philosophy or whatever it seems problematic to force them to discuss it "as guys". Aren't they already doing that?! <br />-The Neglected HusbandAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8550058566159443898.post-76555997533300128862013-12-11T22:36:44.077-05:002013-12-11T22:36:44.077-05:00P.S.:
an appropriate comicP.S.:<br /><br /><a rel="nofollow">an appropriate comic</a>Lauranoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8550058566159443898.post-440767072812161452013-12-11T15:07:47.814-05:002013-12-11T15:07:47.814-05:00I hate it, too, Jenna! So many different kinds of ...I hate it, too, Jenna! So many different kinds of wrong all whipped up together in a tower of gross. <br /><br />I think people who decry the dopey man / classy woman trope while also perpetrating their own version of it. . . aren't necessarily always unaware that there's a contradiction so much as they find both positions useful and satisfying in some way and would rather not have to give either one up, so just don't look at them too closely.<br /><br />Lauranoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8550058566159443898.post-86669361954993186412013-12-11T14:40:06.893-05:002013-12-11T14:40:06.893-05:00HI SETH. This is pretty interesting! Sometimes I t...HI SETH. This is pretty interesting! Sometimes I think all would be well if I had become a wildlife ranger. But only because I like hiking a whole lot.<br /><br />Heavily gendered <i>anything</i> is kind of hard for me to grok (that's Reason #1 I couldn't cut it as a Wiccan). I can sympathize when other people say, "This is my gender identity and here's how I express that," as long as the expression doesn't entail being a jerk in some way, but I couldn't honestly say something like that about myself. That means I'm slightly more insulated from a particular kind of disappointment. My reaction to something like Manly Man's Man Camp Retreat (or FemmeCon 2014, or whatever) would be an automatic PASS, because there isn't a hook for me. I can only imagine how discouraging it would be to hear about something like that, think, "Wow, I <i>would</i> like to explore my masculinity for a couple days!" and then learn that once again it was sports and money all the way down, with a side of housework jokes and a big frothy mug of Poetry Is For Girls. It sounds really frustrating :( <br /><br />Do you encounter this kind of thing in person, or mainly in Men's Retreat sorts of products (and that Way of the Passion Dragon guy whom I keep getting mixed up with John Piper; what's his name?) What do you think is behind it? (When it shows up in Catholic contexts, does it get linked up with the Mother Church thing?)<br /><br />What does masculinity mean to you? If you could design your own non-beefslab-and-sales-based Manhood Retreat, what would it include? <br /><br />Thanks for writing on this awesome topic!<br />Lauranoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8550058566159443898.post-48955578902338271632013-12-10T23:20:14.755-05:002013-12-10T23:20:14.755-05:00P.S.
I seem to recall being told over and over a...P.S.<br /><br /><i> I seem to recall being told over and over again how lucky I should feel that such a dazzling and beautiful creature as woman should ever deign to look at the clod-hopping, troglodytic, dunce that is me</i><br /><br />That particular idea of male/female relation to beauty? I kind of despise it. And when the Wild at Heart kind of guys voice it, they seem unaware that they're repeating the same line that's behind the dopey-man/classy-woman sitcoms they were rebelling against in the first place.<br /><br />As for you, Masha surrounds herself with beauty more determinedly than anyone else I know, and you're clearly part of that vision, not outside it. I can't think offhand of any words that describe what I know of you less than "clodhopping, troglodytic dunce." :P Also, your art is gorgeous. Did I mention that your Etsy shop is amazing? Are you going to make packs of cards? Because you are waaaaaaaayyyy better than Hallmark...Jenna St. Hilairehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04474588706124865006noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8550058566159443898.post-2508534224462996982013-12-10T22:51:14.007-05:002013-12-10T22:51:14.007-05:00Seth!!! You should write more often!
I suppose it...Seth!!! You should write more often!<br /><br />I suppose it's not shocking that this popular ideal of manliness is hanging around Catholicism. It sounds like a mishmash of the Promise Keepers and Wild at Heart stuff that swept Protestantism--oh, maybe two decades ago and one (ish... I didn't do my research here), respectively. And it's great for the guys who are inspired by sports and business, but it <b>is</b> an imbalanced message.<br /><br />I married a man who is bored by sports and unsettled by business. He's more philosopher and scholar than artist, although he does play the piano a little--and he mostly shrugs off the notion that outdoor prowess equals manliness. I am frequently awestruck by the beauty in him.<br /><br />I can list off numerous memories of being awed by beauty in my family and friends, too, the guys as often as the girls. Some of the men's moments.... My dad's long, knobby fingers holding a piece of delicate smithing work he's done. Our previous choir conductor under low Easter lights, keeping a crisp four-count with fine-boned hands, his gentle face intense with concentration. Sixteen-year-old John van Deusen, ten years ago in a low-lit coffeehouse, all blue eyes and brown curls and wandering voice and thundering piano. My father-in-law, the perfect crusty, white-haired gentleman in a charcoal suit, reading at Mass recently. I could go on and on and on, and those are just moments--there's always the fact that beauty is simply much of what I see and love and remember in everyone around me, male or female.<br /><br />We do truth such a disservice when we gender strength and beauty to the point of exclusiveness.<br /><br />Was it you and Masha I was telling recently about crying over the inscription on Raphael's tomb in the Pantheon, yet? I can't remember. He is one of my favorites, and I hadn't known he was buried there when I walked in, and then this: "Ille hic est Raphael, timuit quo sospite vinci, rerum magna parens et moriente mori," translated on a sign as something like, "Here lies Raphael, by whom Nature feared to be outdone while he lived, and when he died, feared that she herself would die."<br /><br />It's hard to beat that for beauty. Also: King David? My favorite Old Testament character, and just one of my favorite people ever. And the harp and lyre and poems and dancing are my favorite things about him.Jenna St. Hilairehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04474588706124865006noreply@blogger.com